Titus 3:5
Colossians 2:11-13
I Peter 3:20-21
Then he offered this challenge.
"Read this verse literally and what does it say: Baptism saves us. Period. Sit down. Read the entire New Testament. Read it literally unless God is VERY clear that he is not speaking literally. What will you end up with: God forgives sins in baptism. God saves in baptism. They only way to believe it doesn't is to establish your doctrine FIRST...and then try to interpret God's words to fit your doctrine. God doesn't need you help to explain what he was trying to say. He is very clear...if you read the Bible literally."Let’s do, shall we? Let’s read the Bible literally and let us read it in context and let us exegete the text. I plan on in the next three posts to exegete the passages that Gary provided. After that, I hope to examine the paradigm of infant baptism. It is not a matter of texts. Saying “Titus 3:5 – BOOM!” dropping the mic and walking off stage with an assured nod of the head, is not how one proves a theological matter.
Here we go...
Part 1 Colossians 2:11-13 click HERE.
8 comments:
Douglas, I placed a comment on your most recent post on Colossians. For someone reason it does not appear under your post. Maybe you have to authorize it first.
I look forward to our discussion.
Gary
Thanks Gary. The comment is up, maybe it was just slow.
Thanks Gary. The comment is up, maybe it was just slow.
So while I wait for Douglas to respond on my comment on Colossians, I will make a "brief" comment here:
"Dunkin' Babies"--funny title, isn't it.
Yes, I know, we conservative/orthodox Christians are so silly to believe that God saves our infants just by getting them wet in a baptismal font with the Word of God spoken over them.
We believe some other really silly things too:
1. We believe that a supernatural being (we refer to him as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit)spoke and by the power of his Word, created the earth and the entire universe in six days. Silly, huh? How can educated people believe such a silly supernatural story which defies science and human reasoning!
2. We believe that God flooded the entire world just by the power of his Word, killing every living being except one man and his family. Silly, huh?
3. We believe that by the power of our God's Word, he parted the Red Sea and allowed the Hebrews to walk across to the other side on dry ground, and drowned the armies of Egypt.
4. We believe that by the power of God's Word the walls of the mighty city of Jericho fell just by God's people shouting and blowing horns. Who made this silly stuff up? Come on, right?
5. We believe that by the power of his Word, God destroyed kingdoms and empires, dethroned kings and emperors.
6. We believe by the power of God's spoken Word the sea and winds on the Lake of Galilee obeyed his command and were still.
7. We believe that by the power of God's spoken Word five fishes and a few loaves fed five thousand people.
8. We believe by the power of God's spoken Word, Lazarus woke from death, and walked out of his grave to his sisters.
9. We believe that by his spoken Word, our God turned water into wine.
We foolishly believe that our God's Word has supernatural, miraculous powers...still TODAY!
And based on multiple passages of Scripture we believe that it is our God who saves, and it is he and he only who decides WHO will be saved, and based on his predestined decision for US, we are given the gift of faith to believe at a time of HIS choosing.
Our silly beliefs defy human logic and reason: A supernatural being that performs supernatural acts! He doesn't depend on OUR decision to save us, he saves us by HIS decision.
Yes, we are silly to believe so many silly things, but we believe that our God is not limited to human reason and logic. He can and does save infants. How else did he give the Holy Spirit for example to the infant John the Baptist? "An exception" you claim? We say, "Prove it!"
God can save any one, any time, anywhere. A literal reading of Scripture shows that he always saves by his grace, through HIS gift of faith. And he can give that gift of faith to anyone, regardless of age. HE creates faith, not the sinner.
God can and DOES give faith and belief to the infants of Christian parents in Infant Baptism. The Church has believed this for 2,000 years. It is time for Baptists and evangelicals to abandon their sixteenth century false doctrine based on works righteousness: sinner's do NOT decide to be saved. GOD decides!
Baptists/evangelicals and orthodox Christians/specifically Lutherans will never reach agreement on Infant Baptism until we first reach agreement on the Doctrine of Salvation/Justification:
Is a sinner capable of making a "decision" for God? Or is the decision for salvation made by God?
How does the sinner obtain/receive faith in his conversion? Is it a faith that he produces by his own intelligence, maturity and decision making capabilities? Or is faith a gift from God, not dependent whatsoever on any action or any decision of the sinner?
What is the PURPOSE of Baptism? Is there anywhere in Scripture that states that Baptism is ONLY an act of obedience/public profession of faith or is it something much more?
These questions MUST be answered before there is any hope on reaching agreement on whether the infants of Christian parents should be baptized.
Gary,
I thought the title was funny, but I don't think you got the joke. I hope that you are not assuming that I deny your 9 Theses.
Here's the joke. You had told me a couple times that I don't read the Bible literally. The Greek word for baptism means immersion (dunkin', if you will). My title was intended to open the door to discuss the mode of baptism.
I was reading over your blog and came back to this post. I decided to comment on one of your statements.
Lutherans believe that the early Church practiced immersion for all baptisms. The Didache confirms this. However, the Didache states that immersion in LIVING water ( a river or lake) is the preferred method, but dipping was an acceptable alternative. Therefore, immersion has never been considered MANDATORY for baptism.
Lutherans immerse, pour, and sprinkle (I would be that 95% of the time it is by pouring).
Luther actually considered returning to full immersion, just as the Greek Orthodox have always done, to both adults and infants, but "chickened out" for fear of being labeled a heretic with the Anabaptists who denied that God saves in baptism, and required a rebaptism of believers who were previously infant baptized. It was a step too far. Even the Reformed (Calvinists) condemned the Anabaptists as heretics. Luther just couldn't stomach it or risk alienating his political supporters. Alas, Luther was not a god, but just a sinner saved by grace just like the rest of us. Luther DID make some mistakes!
As a Lutheran I will make this deal with you: if you Baptists/evangelicals will start baptizing your infants, and recognize that God does save in Baptism, we Lutherans will abandon pouring and sprinkling and practice immersion-only baptism!
Do we have a deal?
Maybe the Infant Baptism debate has been approached from the wrong direction. Instead of starting with our disagreements, let's start with what Baptists/evangelicals and orthodox Christians AGREE upon: All persons who believe and have faith in Christ as their Savior should follow his command and be baptized as soon as possible. Agreed?
So the next question is: Can an infant believe and have faith?
Dear evangelical/Baptist brothers and sisters in Christ: If I can prove to you from Scripture that infants not only can but DO believe and have faith, would you accept infant baptism as Scriptural?
http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2013/09/the-bible-says-that-infants-can-have.html
Post a Comment