Like I’ve noted before, there is a strange kinship between errors that, on the surface, seem to oppose one another. The antinomian is just as focused on the law as the legalist. One runs from the law, the other to the law, but for the sake of the law, they both do run.
The Lutheran and the Arminian have a strange kinship in regards to the sovereignty of God in salvation while they firmly deny the resemblance. Neither truly believes that God has the absolute freedom to choose who will be saved. Both believe it to be unjust and unfair for God to chose to show mercy on some and not others, to one degree or another. Whereas the Arminian applies this to all mankind, the Lutheran applies this to children. Both think they can do something to make God save someone. One calls sinners to the “altar” in the front of the church to make a decision while the other sprinkles water on a babies head. Both positions think that their actions will move God to save and both will call it grace. Both sides will get upset when you point out that this is a work, and both positions will say these things are done in faith. But when you boil it all down, making a decision is a work, and so is baptizing babies. What precedes faith will determine if you truly believe in grace. An odd couple.
The wreckage of decisional regeneration is no different than that of infant baptismal regeneration. In both instances a well meaning adult convinces a child that they are saved. The child takes their word for it and moves on, walking (or crawling) in darkness. A church full of false converts, nominal Christians who have taken the word of someone that they were baptized and believed the report that they repented of their sins and trusted in Christ. Do many later come to saving faith? Sure. Do many die in their sins trusting in the words of men assuring them that their decision saved them, or their baptism saved them? Sadly, yes.
Faith is substantive. True, living, God given faith awakens the dead spirit to life, opens the blind eyes to sight, and causes the dead sinner to see the kingdom of God and come to Jesus Christ. The Lutheran can parse words all day long, but an unconscious infant does not have faith, as faith is defined by the Bible (Hebrews 11:1). How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? He has four - calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it so. Redefining faith may help a well meaning parent or pastor to sleep at night, but it does not change God’s Word, nor does it regenerate the soul of the deceived.
This is an emotional issue, especially for parents of young children, like myself. If there were something I could do to save my children, I would do it - but it would do them no good to impose upon them a religious ritual that has no power to save and lie to them in order that I might feel better. The well meaning Arminian will do the same. They will ask the child if they love God and want to go to Heaven and then ask if they love Jesus and then tell them they are saved. This makes the parents rejoice, for a season, until they wonder why their teenager is cooking meth in the back yard instead of at Bible study.
My children are in God’s hands. Salvation is of the Lord. I tell my kids of the gospel daily. We have daily family worship and daily Bible reading. I pray for the salvation of my children. I do all that the Lord has required of me,all that I can do and their souls are in His hands - and there is no other place that I would rather they be. I desire nothing more than to see my children walk in the truth, but I cannot change the leopard's spots in family worship and only God’s grace can give a heart of flesh, faith, and true repentance. I preach the gospel, I call them to repentance - but their souls are not in my not in my hands, not in the hands of the church, but in the Hands of God.
20 comments:
Interesting post, brother Douglas!
When it comes to the adult non-believer who converts to the Christian faith, Arminians, Calvinists and Lutherans are in full agreement: salvation occurs when the sinner believes. Baptism is not a necessary requirement to be saved. We have theological differences in how believing occurs, but we all believe that the second a sinner believes he is saved.
Our significant denominational differences arise when we talk about the salvation of the infants and toddlers of Christian parents: how are these young children saved? What happens if, God forbid, one of them should die before reaching the age where they are capable of expressing a saving faith in Christ?
The Arminian answer is this: God saves all infants and toddlers who die, even the infants and toddlers of non-believers. They have no hard proof from Scripture to support this belief, but they believe that King David's comments about his dead infant gives them support for their position. Infants who die are "safe" in the arms of a loving God.
Calvinists look at their children in this manner: Their children are either the Elect or they are not. Presbyterian Calvinists will baptize their infants to bring them into the "covenant" (whatever that is!)of the Church but do not believe that baptism has any salvific value. "If my child is of the Elect he will declare himself to be a believer when he is older."
A Calvinistic Baptist does not baptize his infant, but looks at Election in the same way: My child is either of the Elect or not. There is nothing I can do but bring him up in the Faith and leave the rest to God.
Lutherans believe that when God told us to baptize all nations, he meant to baptize ALL those who are the Elect. Many Arminians and Calvinists assume that Lutherans believe that anyone that they run through the baptismal font will get into heaven. Not true! Only the Elect will get into heaven.
We baptize our infants in the HOPE that they are the Elect. Is it possible that some of the infants of Christian parents whom we baptize are not of the Elect and therefore will not be in heaven? Yes! But that is a mystery of God that we do not attempt to explain or understand.
But we believe we do our job of "baptizing all nations" (who are of the Elect)by baptizing our infants and we then leave their Election up to God. We do our job of instructing them in the Faith as they grow up, but when they are older it will be their responsibility to nurture their faith with prayer, Bible study, and worship. If they abandon their faith and turn their back on God, they may wake up one day in hell! Baptism is NOT a "Get-into-heaven-free" card! Salvation is by God's grace alone, received in faith alone.
No faith--->no salvation--->no eternal life!
The Calvinist position on the salvation of infants is very confusing to me. It seems to be a process. A specific event of salvation is not necessary. Is there any example in the NT of anyone being saved by a process?
As much as I deplore Arminian theology, I do like the fact that they insist on a specific "when" of salvation. However, they are wrong to believe that the "when" of salvation is based on THEIR decision when in reality it is based on GOD'S decision.
If Calvinists agree with Lutherans that it is God who chooses who will be saved, and it is God who chooses when to save...which approach seems more Scriptural for the salvation of our children: God saves THOSE OF OUR CHILDREN WHO ARE OF THE ELECT in a one time event in Holy Baptism or he saves them in a nebulous, drawn-out process over a period of years? Unless, of course, Calvinistic Baptists believe that their children who are the Elect are born saved...
I certainly hope they do not believe that the Elect are born saved as do some hard-core Calvinists.
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In truth, Lutherans and Calvinistic Baptists have quite a bit in common on the doctrine of Justification/Salvation: we both believe that God saves whom he wants, when he wants. We both do not believe in a "free will". Our difference is that Calvinistic Baptists cannot accept that God would choose to give the free gift of faith/belief/repentance/salvation to infants, instead of waiting until they are older. And why?
"Because an infant cannot believe!"
But if we both agree that it is God who chooses us, not us choosing him, why do you limit when God can give the free gift of salvation? Is it possible that you are limiting God from saving infants just because it defies your human reason and logic to believe that an infant can believe?
Since when is the Almighty God of the Universe limited to operating in the confines of human reason and logic??
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the idea that infants are born saved. Especially since Calvinism is described in the TULIP acronym. The "T" for total depravity kind of rules that out.
Gary said"Our difference is that Calvinistic Baptists cannot accept that God would choose to give the free gift ofaith/belief/repentance/salvation to infants, instead of waiting until they are older. And why?
So why does God wait until they are infants? What happens if the baby dies on the way to the church building and is never baptized? What happens when children die in the womb?
Lutherans believe that the Elect WILL be saved. In Acts chapter 2 God gives the promise of salvation to the Elect:
1. Those Jews listening in the crowd who are the Elect.
2. The children of the Elect.
3. Those of the "far off" (Gentiles) who are of the Elect.
Why do we believe that this passage is only directed to the Elect? Because at the end of the passage God says these words: "all those whom God has called".
God has not elected ALL to be saved. But yet, Christ died for all and desires all men to be saved. That makes no sense, right? But who says that the Almighty God of Heaven and Earth is limited to the confines of man's logic and reason. He says it...it is so!
God desires all to be saved.
But God has only elected some to be saved.
God damns no one to hell.
Man sends himself to hell.
We Lutherans call this a "paradox". We accept it without insisting on understanding it. Lutherans do NOT believe in "Double Predestination".
Therefore we have HOPE that our infants who die before baptism will be in heaven, but we have no explicit proof of this in the Bible, so we don't build a doctrine on it.
Is it possible that some of our children are not the Elect? Yes. Is it possible that some of our children whom we baptize as infants are not the Elect? Yes.
Lutherans do not believe in "eternal security". We believe that a Christian who's faith and trust is in God need NEVER worry regarding his eternal security. Good works play no role in saving you nor in keeping you saved, unlike the RCC and EOC. If your faith and trust is in Christ, you WILL be saved.
But what about persons who sincerely believe, have faith, repent and follow Christ when they are young, but when they are older they forsake their faith, the Church, prayer, reading the Word, and spit in the face of God by living a life of ongoing willful sin? Does this person have a "Get-into-heaven-free" card, just because he was baptized as an infant? No. The same with the teenager who sincerely prayed the Sinner's Prayer and had a "born again" experience. Can this person go on to live a life of willful sin and completely turn his back on God for the rest of his life and expect to get into heaven?
Lutherans say: "Don't count on it. You may wake up one day in hell!"
We believe Christians can reject Christ, abandon their faith, die, and lose their salvation. However, again, it has nothing to do with the amount of good deeds they do. Losing your salvation requires an abandonment/rejection of your faith.
So if we believe that our children are the Elect, but yet some of them may grow up, abandon their faith, die, and possibly go to hell, how does that make sense? Can the Elect go to hell??
It is another paradox. We accept it by faith without trying to understand it.
Baptism is NOT a "Get-into-heaven-free" card. You can be baptized as an infant or as an adult and still go to hell. We are saved through FAITH. No faith, no salvation, no eternal life.
The Lutheran or other orthodox Christian who looks to his baptism for his eternal security but has no faith, is in grave spiritual danger. He should be warned by the Church and fellow believers that his lack of faith may cause him to wake up one day in hell, to spend eternity in eternal torment.
Again, baptism is one of several "when"s of salvation, it is not the "how" of salvation. The "how" of salvation is and always has been the power of the Word of God/God's declaration of righteousness. That righteousness is received through faith alone, which is a FREE gift, given by Christ's atonement, alone.
All the saints of the OT, the thief on the cross, and many, many Christian martyrs down through history have not been baptized and we believe that they ARE in heaven. They are saved.
It is not the lack of baptism that damns, it is the lack of faith/belief that damns.
So, what do you think, Douglas?
I think my analysis was correct because that is so similar to response I get from Arminians who deny particular redemption and God’s sovereignty in salvation, “it’s a mystery” and “you Calvinists care too much for logic.” As if logic is bad and things not contradicting each other is wrong. Logic is not the basis of by beliefs but when something is true, is always true. If by my calculation, 2+2=7, I’ve gone wrong somewhere, I don’t say “math is a mysterious paradox”.
I also think that you are so wrapped up in your Lutheran tradition, that even when the Word contradicts your position, you acknowledge that it doesn’t fit the system, but call it a paradox, because the system can’t be wrong.
It isn’t a paradox that God chose only some, but wants all to be saved. That is a contradiction. This system puts the will of the Father, Son, and the Spirit at odds with one another. The point of my post is made evident and you have proved it true. You do not like that God is sovereign in salvation and that He has the freedom to choose.
So, what has more authority, the Lutheran system or the Bible? Why is it that the Lutheran system is right, but (in your opinion) the Bible is full of contradictions and paradoxes?
Just to be clear, you are saying that you believe in the Calvinist doctrine of Double Predestination, right? God predestines who goes to heaven AND who goes to hell.
Do you have any scripture passages that say that God has predestined anyone to go to hell? You are making an assumption based on human logic.
I never said that the Bible has contradictions, I said that the Bible has paradoxes. Here are a couple of other paradoxes.
1. How can God be one God, but three persons? That's not logical.
2. How can Christ be the Son of God but be as eternal as his Father, with no beginning. How can a son not have a beginning? That's not logical.
3. How can a virgin give birth to a son? That's not logical.
Tell a non-believer these three Christian beliefs and they will tell you that you are stupid to believe them. "That isn't logical!"
This is why Christ told us that it requires the faith of a little child to enter the Kingdom of God. Little children don't demand that everything conform to human logic before believing it.
Calvinists think too much. Believe God's paradoxes. They require child-like faith to believe, not adult human reason and logic.
Douglas, what do you think of this post:
What does an Arminian Baptist and a Calvinistic Baptist have in common?
Not much.
A Calvinistic Baptist believes that God has predestined those who will be saved. The sinner does not make a "decision" to believe. Some "hyper-Calvinist" Baptists even believe in Double Predestination: God predestines those who will be saved AND those who will go to hell.
Since God has predestined that you WILL believe/you will be saved, there is no necessity of knowing the exact "when" of your salvation, as long as you currently believe, thereby declaring yourself as one of the "chosen". Ask a Calvinistic Baptist when he was saved and many times you will get a blank stare and this response: "I don't know exactly when I was saved...it was a process."
Many Calvinistic Baptists believe that Christ is "spiritually" present in the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper as Zwingli taught, but like their Arminian brethren, deny that Christ is bodily present in the Elements.
Arminian Baptists believe that man has a free will not only in physical matters (which shirt to put on this morning, etc.) but also in spiritual matters: the sinner can decide or choose to have faith and be saved or not. Therefore, since salvation only occurs by the sinner making a decision, the "when" of salvation is critical. In fact, if you cannot give the exact time and place of your born-again salvation experience/decision for Christ, many Arminian Baptists will state emphatically that it is impossible for you to be saved. To them, you CANNOT be a Christian and not know the "when" of your salvation/decision for Christ.
Arminians see the Lord's Supper as strictly a memorial service. The bread and grape juice (no wine in Arminian Baptist churches) is simply that, bread and grape juice. They are purely symbolic.
So you can see why the Southern Baptist Convention is at the point of civil war between these two groups: their fundamental beliefs are based on completely different theologies and concepts of God. How can they stay in one denomination when they are really TWO denominations?
The only major doctrine that Arminian Baptists and Calvinistic Baptists share in common is this: both believe that baptism is simply and only a public profession of faith/act of Christian obedience. Therefore, they will both only baptize professing adults and older children.
What's strange is: Didn't Arminius and Calvin both baptize infants?? And... they both sprinkled!
Where did the first Baptists of the seventeenth century really get their doctrine? It seems to be a hodgepodge of Calvinism/Arminianism/and Ana-Baptist. And we are asked to believe that there have been Baptistic believers believing this hodgepodge of beliefs since the Apostles??
Calvinist think too much?
I had a terrible day at work yesterday. On top of that, I have a terrible cold. And it was hot; then it rained, which made it humid - South East Georgia humid.
But this quote, honestly made my day. You brought a smile to my face Gary, and I might use that as a future category/tag on the blog.
God chooses to whom He will show mercy. So, yes, that means He chooses to whom He will not show mercy. It isn't like there are people who want to be saved, but God just won't let them. No one seeks after God, and all of humanity rejects God, is guilty in Adam, and deserves the fires of Hell for all eternity. Out of that group of sinners, God chose to glorify Himself in saving some.
Romans 9 is a good place to start if you want scriptural proof - or most of the Old Testament is a pretty good illustration.
Again, I don't think you like the idea that God is sovereign in salvation.
I'm sorry you are not feeling well, brother. I will pray for you that God will bless you and restore your health.
Back to our discussion: Yes, brother you are thinking to much on the subject of predestination.
Christ wants you to have the faith of a child. He desires "all men" to be saved. Christ died for "all men".
If a father tells a two year old that the sky is blue and green, the child will believe it without question. "My father says it, so it is so."
That is how God wants you to believe the Doctrine of Predestination: God chooses who will be saved. Man chooses to send himself to hell.
God has NEVER predestined anyone to hell!
Judas, Pharaoh, Esau, the Amalekites the Canaanites...
That sounds super spiritual, to not think, just believe. But we are commanded to study, to meditate, to think, to search the scriptures and we are commanded to rightly divide the scriptures.
When the sovereignty of God is salvation and the clear teaching of election are presented in scripture and that goes against your belief system, instead of letting the scripture speak for its self in context, you say that your theology is correct, and the scripture is a paradox.
The Doctrine of Predestination is probably the most difficult of Christian doctrines. I don't think we are going to change each other's minds on this issue. Are you in the SBC? If so, I don't see how you and the Arminians tolerate each other. At least I believe that God predestines the Elect. You and I as a Lutheran have more in common than you do your Arminian Baptist brothers and sisters.
Bottom line: the sinner needs to believe and repent. How the sinner "does" that is theological. Practically: "Believe and repent" is all the sinner needs to know.
So if we both believe that God elects those who will be saved, at what point do you know when your children are saved? Is it an exact moment or is it a process?
Many Calvinists that I have spoken to believe that their salvation and the salvation of their children was a "process". They cannot point to one specific moment when God saved them.
Are there any examples in the Bible of anyone being saved in a "process". I don't think so. In all the conversions mentioned in the Bible there is a one time moment when God saves the Elect, the Called, the Appointed. There is no process.
I believe that one reason that God gave us Baptism is to give a "when" of salvation for our children; the children of Christians. Is it possible that some of these infant baptized children will grow up and abandon the faith. Yes, and they very well may end up in hell. But Baptism gives us a reference point: THAT is when God saved me, and I know that I am still saved by the presence of my faith, no matter how weak it may be, if it exists at all it is faith.
Doesn't it seem much more Scriptural to believe that God saves us at a specific, recognizable moment in time, instead of a vague process whereby your child begins to "exhibit" the characteristics of the Elect, as some Calvinists propose?
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the prayer, I appreciate it.
No, I’m not in the SBC. I’m a Sovereign Grace Baptist, though many churches in our denomination were former SBC and instrumental in its founding, most left in the 1950’s. I do agree that it is becoming more and more difficult for Calvinists to remain.
I’m not sure what you mean by “process”? A person is saved when they are given life, faith, and repentance by the Holy Spirit. Regeneration proceeds faith and repentance.
When you mentioned Baptism being a “reference point” it reminds me (again) of the Arminian Baptists who urge people who doubt whether or not they were born again to remember when they were baptized and confessed with their mouth, or to remember the day they made the decision. Some even writing the date on the inside cover of their Bible so when they doubt they remember the day. The problem I have is that they are looking at the wrong thing. We should be looking at Christ, not the day.
A child is going to exhibit the same marks of the Holy Spirit as an adult does, only in a childlike way. In other words, they will be a child and have a child like understanding. As Jonathan Edwards described the marks of true believers, you can apply those same spiritual truths to children - they will love Jesus, hate sin, love God’s Word, Love the truth, and love other believers.
It is interesting, brother, that even though we have differing views on the "when" of salvation, the end result is the same: Faith must exist for true salvation to exist. No faith, no salvation.
We both agree that salvation occurs when GOD chooses to save us and gives us life, faith and repentance. You say that regeneration occurs before faith and repentance, I say it all occurs simultaneously.
But bottom line, the child of a Sovereign Grace Baptist and the child of a Lutheran must both possess faith in Christ and genuinely confess and live that faith as they grow older. Simply depending on your baptism, or an inherited "election", will not get you into heaven.
Salvation must ALWAYS be received and maintained in faith. One does not need to do good works to be saved or to keep one's salvation, but a blatant abandonment of one's faith places one in grave danger of eternal damnation.
God bless you, my Baptist brother!
Amen. God bless!
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